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avreliaI wanted to share my recent annoyance with you, guys. ;)
It is not exactly recent, but it came back to life after the last discussion in![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
fer1213' LJ. First of all, I agreed with Fer’s post absolutely, but not with several comments to it. Some commenters expressed an opinion, popular at one part of the fandom – that is, that Buffy didn’t own all bad things she did to Spike, never apologized publicly, never was properly chastised for everything she did. So, she shouldn’t be forgiven and upheld as a proper heroine, and obviously she's not deserving of the Spike’s love.
And this attitude bugs me a lot.
I generalize here – not all these sentiments and not in this exact wording were expressed in the comments to Fer’s post, but all of them exist and I encountered them here and there.
I actually get where some of it comes from the series – Buffy doesn’t say in plain English everything we wanted her to say, but…
1.How did she not own her actions?
She admits that she behaved like a monster - and not to the Holden, but to herself, which is a huge thing. (Holden is a good therapist here – making her do all the work herself)
She admits using Spike several times – to Spike. Very good of her.
2.She doesn’t tell her friends or write about her relationship with Spike in Sunnydale Herald.
Yes. But why would she?
Why would anyone? Where does this taste for the public repentance come from? Dostoevsky? (yes, that’s right, but his characters are not exactly examples of mental health.)
I think Buffy’s relationships with friends were very true to life (mine, anyway), and no matter how much she loves them some things are not for them. She told it to whom it mattered.
3.Buffy can be terse and quippy, but eloquent in expressing her feelings she is not. Especially in the later seasons. She acts instead. And her (tiring eve for me) refrain “He has a soul now!” was the inability to express just how much it means to her. I can talk more on it, but other people said it better already. But I can't imagine a long remorseful monologue from Buffy about how she was mean and cold, and I don't want to. Her actions in s7 says a lot to me.
4.Forgiveness is not given when it is deserved, but when it is needed. (s2 Angelus episode, same time same place, the whole series, basically.)
I am ranting, hence the friendslocking this entry.
I feel better already. But sometimes I just wonder what makes people to have this need to see Buffy being chastised?
It is not exactly recent, but it came back to life after the last discussion in
fer1213' LJ. First of all, I agreed with Fer’s post absolutely, but not with several comments to it. Some commenters expressed an opinion, popular at one part of the fandom – that is, that Buffy didn’t own all bad things she did to Spike, never apologized publicly, never was properly chastised for everything she did. So, she shouldn’t be forgiven and upheld as a proper heroine, and obviously she's not deserving of the Spike’s love. And this attitude bugs me a lot.
I generalize here – not all these sentiments and not in this exact wording were expressed in the comments to Fer’s post, but all of them exist and I encountered them here and there.
I actually get where some of it comes from the series – Buffy doesn’t say in plain English everything we wanted her to say, but…
1.How did she not own her actions?
She admits that she behaved like a monster - and not to the Holden, but to herself, which is a huge thing. (Holden is a good therapist here – making her do all the work herself)
She admits using Spike several times – to Spike. Very good of her.
2.She doesn’t tell her friends or write about her relationship with Spike in Sunnydale Herald.
Yes. But why would she?
Why would anyone? Where does this taste for the public repentance come from? Dostoevsky? (yes, that’s right, but his characters are not exactly examples of mental health.)
I think Buffy’s relationships with friends were very true to life (mine, anyway), and no matter how much she loves them some things are not for them. She told it to whom it mattered.
3.Buffy can be terse and quippy, but eloquent in expressing her feelings she is not. Especially in the later seasons. She acts instead. And her (tiring eve for me) refrain “He has a soul now!” was the inability to express just how much it means to her. I can talk more on it, but other people said it better already. But I can't imagine a long remorseful monologue from Buffy about how she was mean and cold, and I don't want to. Her actions in s7 says a lot to me.
4.Forgiveness is not given when it is deserved, but when it is needed. (s2 Angelus episode, same time same place, the whole series, basically.)
I am ranting, hence the friendslocking this entry.
I feel better already. But sometimes I just wonder what makes people to have this need to see Buffy being chastised?
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Date: 2005-04-04 08:45 pm (UTC)At some point, probably in comments to someone else, so I don't have it available, I went through and noted Buffy's attitude towards verbal apologies for massive transgressions, and throughout the show, she's internally consistant in that she neither wants (see: her interactions with Faith in Sanctuary) nor offers the words, because that's all they are: words.
no subject
Date: 2005-04-05 06:13 am (UTC)Exactly. And by her very nature, Buffy is a woman of actions, therefore her actions should be believed above any words that could or would be spoken.
no subject
Date: 2005-04-05 03:09 pm (UTC)I'd have said it in the comments there, but have long since learned NOT to go into this particular subject outside of a handful of places--it just gets me into trouble. My thoughts when first watching S6 were, "Wow. That's some serious mutually assured destruction we've got there. Hot, but good for no one in the long run." It always baffles me when it's read as a one-sided use/abuse situation, on either side of the fence.
no subject
Date: 2005-04-05 04:58 pm (UTC)My turn to "word" you. ;)
I completely understand not commenting on a post like that. I think I'm a little insane or asking for some serious trouble by not locking certain ranty things, but I have two people in particular who read my LJ and don't have LJs of their own and I like to know their opinions. Plus there's that whole I'm an opinionated bee-yotch and don't care who knows it thing...