Onions have layers, Ogres have layers, other stuff has layers, too.

[avrelia]

My AtS notes, cannot really call it review.


I noticed that we tend to view whatever characters say as truth set in stone. As something we have to believe to. No, we don’t have to.
- Lorne isn’t in love with Fred.
- Angel may think he knows everything about atonement, but does he really?
- Wes is unstable on the brink of crazy.
- Gunn wants to drown in his guilt.
- Illyria is confused.
- Eve doesn’t know what she knows.
- Lindsay wouldn’t tell everything he knows to anybody.

After making these adjustments, I’d like to proceed.

This episode is setting figures for the final showdown and rises many questions for a curious mind.
What was the plan of SP? I think they have one, but which of the happening did they planned and which not?
What was Lindsay’s plan?
What did really happen in “You are Welcome”?
Is it too much to hope that these questions will be answered?
How many layers does an onion have?
What was Spike doing there – beside drinking beer?

I actually liked Wes/Illyria scenes – they were dark, and claustrophobic, and repetitive, and it felt right for me. And Fred is there, but though I like her, I don’t really want the return of the same Fred as she was in THitW and before. I seriously wanted to hug both Illyria and Wes. They are so pathetic, “pitiful echoes of themselves”. They did also have an interesting kind of connection. Wesley, you don’t need a good girl, you need someone you cannot worship.

I also had a weird case of association with Illyria – I am not at my most cheerful right now – and all that reminiscing on the kingdom lost, on the glory forgone, felt kind of right.

Wesley is hardly there. But then, he knows it.

“It is my particular skill”.

Another memorable bit from his dream/ hallucination:

- I thought I was in isolation.
- And whose fault is this?

Illyria:
“My face is not my face. I don’t know what it will say.”

“we are so weak”

Anvils? Whatever. I like them.

*The contrast between the Terminator and the cheerful liaison was great.
*And that happy hell was creepier that the “normal” hell would be.
*The world of shrimp made me happy. It makes a nice counterpoint to BtVS, with its several mentions of the world without shrimp.
*And nightmares, walking the Earth – I remembered that they are actually night mares…
*And all the parallels to Connor…

Comments

[molly_may]

Wesley, you don’t need a good girl, you need someone you cannot worship.

This is a lesson Wesley dearly needs to learn.

“My face is not my face. I don’t know what it will say.”

That is a fascinating line. I wonder how much of Fred is left in Illyria, and how much of her is affecting the things that Illyria says and does and feels now.

[avrelia.livejournal.com]

"This is a lesson Wesley dearly needs to learn."

He will be much more saner in that case - and they are facsinating together - insult each other and don't feel really bothered being insulted, etc.

"I wonder how much of Fred is left in Illyria, and how much of her is affecting the things that Illyria says and does and feels now."

Me, too.

[ascian3.livejournal.com]

I noticed that we tend to view whatever characters say as truth set in stone. As something we have to believe to. No, we don’t have to.

This is so right. Somehow it all seems so much more slippery and interesting when it's just points of view, and not written in stone.

[avrelia.livejournal.com]

It is also less depressing - then hear a character say something we don't like and blame ME on ruining everything. Characters say things for a million of different reasons - as we are, not necessarily to make AN IMPORTANT POINT. It is way more interesting to figure out why would he say it. I think Buffy loved Spike not because she said it, but because this and her previous behavior, etc, for example.

[ascian3.livejournal.com]

It is way more interesting to figure out why would he say it. I think Buffy loved Spike not because she said it, but because this and her previous behavior, etc, for example.

I thought that too, about Buffy. I thought she'd loved him for a long time, in fact, but for the most part it only ever made things worse.

I completely agree about it being more interesting - the story gets way more compelling, to me, when you're dealing with lots of subjective viewpoints rather than the voice of The Author. And yes, much less depressing. :-)

[asta77.livejournal.com]

Lindsay wouldn’t tell everything he knows to anybody.

ITA. Lindsey will only ever give out as much information as he needs to. Unlike Angel or the Senior Partners, he's not on a side - his main concern is him. Yes, he wants to take down the Senior Partners and that would seem to be a good thing, but he ain't doing it for the good of mankind. The way he talks about us, he's pretty much disugusted by humanity (and I have a sneaking suspicion - himself as well).

What was Spike doing there – beside drinking beer?

That's what I would like to know. Once again, this seems like an episode where Spike really wasn't needed. Other than shielding Lindsey from some bullets, what was his purpose?

[avrelia.livejournal.com]

he ain't doing it for the good of mankind.

I think I would be more worried if he was acting out of the love to mankind.

what was his purpose?

Probably, the fact that he is there is important, but still…