I'm trying to figure out this Buffy stuff myself, and I've been wondering about the double-standard -- why does Buffy get blamed for so much that Angel/Spike get away with? I don't know if it's a vamp/human issue or a gender issue. Maybe it's because, since most of the fandom is female, we tend to hold Buffy to a higher standard? I've noticed that a lot of women act that way. Female solidarity can be kind of a myth -- we can be harder on each other than on men.
I agree with you that this desire to see Buffy publicly humiliated and repentant is strange and off-putting. Why do people want this? Is it because women are somehow supposed to be nurturing, and Buffy doesn't exhibit that? It's the scarlet letter all over again, with the overtones of misogyny and double standard. I think there are some fans who would have liked to have seen a Dead Man's Party-type episode at least once per season, with Buffy humiliated and being taken to task by her "righteous" friends. Count me out.
(I have to be honest and say that I actually do like that episode, by the way. I find it easy to sympathize with pretty much everyone in it. Well, with Buffy and Willow, at least. Xander can bite me.)
And her (tiring eve for me) refrain “He has a soul now!” was the inability to express just how much it means to her.
I agree. Her actions in S7 spoke volumes to me. And that's what I don't get about some of these post-series fics that have Buffy going through cycles of remorse and repentance in front of Spike. What I saw was that by the end of S7, Buffy and Spike had established a relationship with mutual trust and love. Not that they were perfect, but I think they'd managed to work through a lot of their issues, both separately and together. I saw a Buffy who had forgiven both Spike and herself. I saw a Spike who accepted and loved Buffy for who she was, warts and all. I didn't see a Spike who was nursing hidden grudges and resentments, and I didn't see that in AtS S5 either. Of course, that kind of thing can still exist and come to light later on, but it would take a lot to convince me.
What bothers me is that so many fans seem to see this as a necessary thing: Buffy has to experience exactly what Spike did in S6 -- the pain, the humiliation, the obsessive love for someone else -- in order to have any type of relationship with him. Which is complete bullshit, in my opinion, and it cheapens how much their relationship grew in S7. Since when is love about payback and revenge? Because this is what it really is -- the fans getting revenge on Buffy through Spike, and that pisses me off.
Heh. And I'm having Fic Issues again, can you tell? ;) Not so much with the fic itself, but with some of the comments to it. I'm having to sit on my hands to keep from commenting.
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I agree with you that this desire to see Buffy publicly humiliated and repentant is strange and off-putting. Why do people want this? Is it because women are somehow supposed to be nurturing, and Buffy doesn't exhibit that? It's the scarlet letter all over again, with the overtones of misogyny and double standard. I think there are some fans who would have liked to have seen a Dead Man's Party-type episode at least once per season, with Buffy humiliated and being taken to task by her "righteous" friends. Count me out.
(I have to be honest and say that I actually do like that episode, by the way. I find it easy to sympathize with pretty much everyone in it. Well, with Buffy and Willow, at least. Xander can bite me.)
And her (tiring eve for me) refrain “He has a soul now!” was the inability to express just how much it means to her.
I agree. Her actions in S7 spoke volumes to me. And that's what I don't get about some of these post-series fics that have Buffy going through cycles of remorse and repentance in front of Spike. What I saw was that by the end of S7, Buffy and Spike had established a relationship with mutual trust and love. Not that they were perfect, but I think they'd managed to work through a lot of their issues, both separately and together. I saw a Buffy who had forgiven both Spike and herself. I saw a Spike who accepted and loved Buffy for who she was, warts and all. I didn't see a Spike who was nursing hidden grudges and resentments, and I didn't see that in AtS S5 either. Of course, that kind of thing can still exist and come to light later on, but it would take a lot to convince me.
What bothers me is that so many fans seem to see this as a necessary thing: Buffy has to experience exactly what Spike did in S6 -- the pain, the humiliation, the obsessive love for someone else -- in order to have any type of relationship with him. Which is complete bullshit, in my opinion, and it cheapens how much their relationship grew in S7. Since when is love about payback and revenge? Because this is what it really is -- the fans getting revenge on Buffy through Spike, and that pisses me off.
Heh. And I'm having Fic Issues again, can you tell? ;) Not so much with the fic itself, but with some of the comments to it. I'm having to sit on my hands to keep from commenting.